AMD: So, before we get to our guest, I’d like to talk about my thoughts for the week. I’ve been thinking a lot about baby strippers and millennials and the younger generation and about how important their role is in society today.

I think one of the things that bothers me the most about  How people now talk about the younger generation is they, they put them down a lot and they, they basically say things like, Oh, millennials think this or Oh, millennials feel privileged. Quite honestly, I think millennials are actually really, really amazing and they bring up a lot of great points and I think they’re a lot more educated than we are, um, when we were their age.

And I think that has a lot to do with social media and the internet and them just having more. access to more information. And the reason why these people are so important is because they’re breathing new life into society and especially baby strippers. They have the power to breathe new life into the strip club industry, which is a complete fucking mess right now.

If you know anything about what’s going on in the strip club industry. And I think that by working with baby strippers and educating them and you know, moving forward with the types of movements that sex workers are doing now that, you know, We can make a real change in what’s going on right now. So you know, I would like to encourage all of you to really take a moment before you talk negatively about the next generation because I do hear that a lot, a lot of shit talking about millennials and baby strippers.

And I think that this is a time to actually unify with them and to create something new and interesting and, and healthier. And we’re just like shit talking each other, especially the younger generation. We’re not doing anything good for ourselves either. So I would like to encourage you to embrace the next generation and to work with them and stop talking shit about them.

Okay. All right. So thanks for listening to my thoughts. I I don’t know what I would do if I didn’t have an audience to rant all of my beliefs and mental musings too, so thank you for that.  So I don’t want to waste any time. I want to get right into who our amazing guest is because guess what? She’s kind of a baby stripper, but she’s a very mature baby stripper.

And today we are here with Christiana, a. k. a. Selena. Hey. Hi. Hey, what’s up? Thank you so much for coming. 

StS: You’re welcome. No problem. Happy to be here. 

AMD: Yeah. You know, I took a video of you walking up to the door. 

StS: Oh, really? Today?  

AMD: Oh, yeah. I was pointing and shooting. You just look so fabulous, like right out of Austin Powers  with your white, like patent leather boots.

StS: Thank you. 

AMD: Yeah. Um, I wish I had like the capacity to like dress up so beautifully. Every time I see you, you’re so stylish.  

StS: Oh, thank you. I’ve been getting into being stylish. I feel like people in L.A. kind of show up really hard and I’m like, let me just try. 

AMD: That’s true. That’s true. You know, I went out Saturday night by accident. I didn’t realize what night it was until I was out and everyone was so fabulous and like hot and I was like, Wait, oh, it’s Saturday. That’s yeah, and like you’re right. Everybody like was turned up looking so good 

StS: Yeah, I think I just I appreciate it because I’m come from Oklahoma where it’s very schlubby like all the time. Like it’s standard to go to a club and like sweatpants and a sweatshirt boots type vibe and a hair in a ponytail or like Topknot bun like and that’s that’s totally cool. You have a full face of makeup on and that’s your look. But here I like everybody really, you know showing up. 

AMD: Yeah, you grew up in Oklahoma Yeah, I was born there, in Stillwater. 

StS: Oh my gosh. 

AMD: I mean, I only lived there for six months I don’t really remember any of it. 

StS: Stillwater is nowhere. I mean, well, I guess it’s where OSU is, so like that’s the second biggest university in Oklahoma. 

AMD: And I know that because my dad had an OSU hat forever. He didn’t go there. He just likes sports and stuff. Um, but I think he went to naval boot camp there, and that’s why we were there. 

StS: Really? 

AMD: I think that’s where they had boot camp. There’s, it had something to do with the Navy. There would be no other reason that we would be in. still water.

StS: Yeah, yeah, definitely. It’s truly nowhere. 

AMD: Yeah. And there’s a place in Oklahoma where you get these drinks called lunch boxes. Do you know what I’m talking about? And they have dollar bills stapled all over the walls and the ceiling. 

Um, and it’s in Oklahoma City.  I forget what it’s called every time I always forget. 

StS: I have no idea where this place is, but I have to go now. 

AMD: Yeah, someone needs to comment. Yeah, and so lunchboxes are like  less than half a glass full of light beer with a splash of orange juice, and then you get a shot of amaretto that you drop in.

StS: Okay. 

AMD: And it tastes like fruit snacks, kind of, slash like maybe a cracker in there, because the beer is like, It’s really good. 

StS: It’s got that hoppy thing plus the fruity, very interesting. It is. It is. I’ve never heard of this. I like that I’m learning about where I’m from. 

AMD: Yeah. I know more about Oklahoma than you.

StS: Yep. Um, that’s the case. 

AMD: I’m kidding. So, you know, I just want to be like really honest with our audience. Um,  Selena and I, I prefer to call you Selena. I’ve just kind of got used to that. Um, we both work on Soldiers of Pole together. 

StS: Yes. That’s how we know each other. Yeah. 

AMD: And you are now officially on the board of  Soldiers of Pole.

StS: I’m the merch maven. Oh my gosh. You make the most amazing merch. You have such great ideas. Thank you. 

AMD: Yeah. But I think that comes with like, You know, you are of a younger generation and you just have like your finger on the pulse when it comes to that kind of stuff. 

StS: Yeah. And, um, I mean, I, I’m from an art background and also I went to art school and so all my friends are like artists doing things. So I’m just like, Hey, like, what are you doing? I give them a call and like, can you do this graphic design thing for me? Awesome. Can you like print this shirt for me? Can you do photo editing? And people are like, yeah, yeah, of course I’d love to. 

AMD: Yeah. Awesome. I love being friends with artists. 

StS: Yeah. They’re amazing. 

AMD: Fantastic. So tell us, tell the audience how long you’ve been stripping now. I’ve been stripping. 

StS: So it’s been about three consecutive years, but then I had a time prior that I was dancing as well. Um, and that was before I left for Brazil and then before I moved to California. So after college I would like strip for a couple months and yeah and then I used the money and traveled. 

AMD: Okay, so you use the money to go to Brazil? 

StS: Yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh I need to have enough money to like be out there for 12 months and You know provide for myself and I was like, okay, so if I make X amount of money It’ll be worth three times what the value is in the United States So I need to make this amount of money to survive comfortably Yeah.

AMD: Wow, so you basically created a business plan for yourself. 

StS: I did. 

AMD: To go and you were right out of college. Yeah, so you’re still young. Yeah, like 21. 

StS: Oh, no, I was 22, 23. 

AMD: Okay, still pretty young. 

StS: Still pretty young. Yeah, I was still a little thing. 

AMD: Yeah, and so why Brazil? Was it just like Was it just for funsies or was there?

StS: Um, it was a little arbitrary. I definitely wanted to learn Portuguese. Okay. And Brazil was the place. I also just had like a romantic love of Brazil. And I just thought, let me just do it. I wanted to maroon myself. I had this thing, I was like, oh, your neuroplasticity diminishes significantly by the term, to turn 24. So I was like, I need to leave the country so that I could pick up a language with a greater ease. Uh, before I turned 24. 

AMD: Dude, you’re like blowing my mind right now.  Okay, so you, first of all, you researched science and biology, right? And then you figured out how much you needed, you created a business plan, and you executed your plan, and you took yourself to Brazil.

StS: Yeah. 

AMD: For a year? 

StS: Yeah. 

AMD: Like, that’s sick.  And, yeah. Wow. So, I think, you know, one of the reasons I’m mind blown in that, like, I think it’s important for the audience to hear this is because so often people think that strippers are just dumb or we’re just, like, dancing to make money so we can, um, you know, pay for our drug habit our children or school 

StS: Or a luxury lifestyle or luxury.

AMD: Yeah, and that’s it, you know And you know who Valerie stunning is right? Mm hmm. Valerie stunning is very like best friends with Jack stripper I should definitely introduce you to her via Instagram. Follow her because she talks a lot about like the business aspect of stripping and how to save your money and and how to hustle and like the mental roadblocks that we deal with and she really encourages people to, you know, love stripping but also utilize the benefits It’s stripping for what it really is for, which is to make a shit ton of money and do the right things with it.

StS: Totally. I mean, I’m like an obsessive saver. Um, just because I grew up in like, Really extreme well not extreme poverty, but I was super poor And so I’m just like I’m gonna save so much so that I can like have the mobility to do what I want and I also know like  as Much as I I love stripping it does have like, you know Like a finite kind of end to it at a point as much as you can strip for like decades and like, you know and be fucking hot and make a lot of money and get better and better like over a period of time But like  there are things like injuries That are real and also just, you know, like maybe you just feel you want to do something different sometime. 

AMD: Yeah.

StS: It’s like we’re changing, growing people and what we want changes as much as any other person in any career. So, you know, what your point of focus is, is always going to be changing. So I think for me it’s important to, to save and um, just like, you know, keep that in mind. Like keep it in mind that I’m going to change and  want something different. 

AMD: When I was younger and I was like 23 stripping like you, um,  I, I, I wasn’t as smart with my money and I look back on that time and think like, dang, you know, if I had had the, the intelligence that I have now, or the experience, how different my life would be. And then of course you can’t do that, right? You can’t live in that past that you’re making up. Um, but yeah, and that’s why I’m so fascinated by the younger dancers now who know more of how to do that. 

StS: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s, it’s uneven. Um, I mean, everybody, we have all of the things that we have to fight against, you know, like I love luxury stuff as much as anybody else. Like, I want to be traveling all the time and taking breaks. And, um, I’ve been spending so much money this month, like just shopping. Cause it’s like sales season. So I have like a little guilt inside about that. I’m like, Oh, but I don’t, I still can save and that’s important to me and I get a really good feeling out of it. But, you know, like, I still think a lot of younger generation people don’t save, unfortunately.

I mean, I think also people don’t  It’s not that they don’t realize that it could Like that they’re not always going to have that money with that same frequency, but it’s also just like there’s a lot of extenuating circumstances, like people have maybe, uh, unstable living conditions or maybe they’re taking care of their families or things like that, you know, so they’re not always able to, or they don’t have the mindset to save.  

AMD: Right. That was me missing the mindset. And then I did save and then I invested in the wrong thing and lost it. And my mentality was,  I’ll just make that 20 grand back in like  two or three weeks.  No big deal. I wish I was balling that hard. Yo, back in the day though, it was different. 

StS: It was different money then.

AMD: It was very different money. So when I first started stripping in 2002, um, I was like,  Fuck man, I make a grand easy like this is what’s up? Yeah, and and then the older shippers were like patting me on the head like oh you poor thing We used to make two or three grand a night easy. This is not this is like stupid money Like they were irritated by only making a grand And I remember being like, oh man, you know, I got started too late and now making a grand Like every night I had to make a grand. If I didn’t make a grand, I was pissed. And now I’m making a ground every night. I mean, really, depending on where you are. It’s pretty tough. 

StS: Yeah. I mean, I feel like I still, I get kind of upset if I don’t make a grand in a night too, but it’s just like, I mean, that’s not typical. Like what I make is not typical nowadays.

AMD: So you’re, you think you’re above the average, above average? 

StS: I think so. Yeah. Unfortunately. I mean, especially considering like what we do and the risks that we have and just, you know, how the money ends up spent on things that you don’t expect, like health things, like mental health or physical health, PT from time to time, like that kind of thing.

AMD: Yeah. I need a massage right now.

StS: I do too. I really do.  Like for real. 

AMD: Yeah. I was using the tennis ball a lot this morning. 

StS: I keep putting it off. Cause, you know, it’s easy to deprioritize my own physical health, like that way,  with a massage that feels like less important than going to yoga or something, but it’s like they go hand in hand.

AMD: Totally. Um, so  I want to talk a little bit about the climate in Los Angeles cause you work in an area that I don’t get to talk to a lot of people in the area of LA that you’re working in.  I’m Hollywood, I’m a hood rat, so I spend most of my time over here. Um, but, do you feel comfortable talking about, like, what, Is going on in some of the issues that you’re seeing currently?

StS: Yeah, of course. You’re at, yeah. Um, so my club is unique. We’re close to the airport and so, um, we have like a special kind of niche there has like a place that’s like close enough to airport hotels and stuff like that, that people who are in transit, um, can stop by, for however long, like people wait out flights or they come from a flight directly to the club because they want to like blow off steam or whatever. We have like a consistent stream of like, traveling clients, which is really positive because people who can travel have money to travel. They’re often put up in hotels and they have nowhere to go in that area because that airport is, that Area is desolate. It’s just like nothing but warehouses. So they’re kind of like we are the only Entertainment option for them out there. So we have really a cornered market and we also have been there for decades It’s like one of those spots. But I mean, it’s like LA like all of the strip clubs have been used in a million and one movies and in music videos. So we have like this kind of iconic like thing about LA being here. But to speak to the politics of it, my club is interesting because we’ve managed to dodge a lot of the regulations around AB5. So the bill that Changed us from, um, independent contractors to employees. And, um, so we are still currently classified as independent contractors, although I have heard with new girls that they have the option to opt into being employee or independent contractor. 

AMD: And they haven’t approached any of you that are already working there to also opt. And to be clear, the AB5 bill, it, uh, for anyone who doesn’t know what that is, it makes it so that on a federal level that strippers are now considered to be employees, when in actuality, and I think there’s some confusion around that language as well, even strippers are saying, oh, the law has changed. The law never changed, it was just reworded, it was rewritten, and we’ve always should have been classified as employees, but because that 20 questionnaire thing, have you ever read that? 

StS: No, I haven’t. 

AMD: It’s like 20 questions to figure out whether, if your workers should be classified as independent contractors or employees. And it was very vague, and it created a lot of gray area. Which is why I think these establishments were able to get away with that for so long. Because it was always like when you took the test, you’re like, Ooh, are they, aren’t they? And they’re like, well, we’ll just do what’s easier for us. And so I think that’s why they went that route. But now AB5 makes it so that on a federal level, um, we are definitely classified as employees. There is no gray. It is black and white now. On a federal level? Or on a state? Oh, really? Well, on a state level. On a state level. It’s ret. And maybe I’m quoting wrong, but I think that it’s recognized by the federal government or something like that.

StS: Okay. 

AMD: Am I being wrong? 

StS: Um, I’m not a hundred percent, but it sounds like state government thing. I think it’s state by state. 

AMD: Well, you’re probably right because you, I don’t know. I’m just, you seem like you read more books than me, so  I think you might be right. We’ll fix that later if I’m, if I’m wrong, but I know it’s, it’s definitely solidified.

StS: Yeah. And I mean, a big part of it was just that. Um, the question boiled down to like, is your job integral to the identity of the business? Exactly. So what’s a strip club without strippers? What’s Uber without drivers? What’s, you know, writer, what’s a news agency without writers? Right, right. So all of those levels and we are, you know, literally there’s no club without us. So yeah, that’s how we are pushed to, we are employees. Yeah. 

AMD: So do you know of any of the dancers opting for employee status? 

StS: No. No.  And I’m pretty sure that with any kind of hiring, there’s a lot of pressure to sign documents in a certain way, and I think a lot of dancers coming in are not reading through it to,  you know, to navigate their own contract. Um, I know whenever I sign mine, I mean, it’s like a document that’s like 10 to 20 pages of stuff of legal language. So um, I mean, there’s like stuff that you can glance through like, Oh, like your image like will or will not be used in publications or what it, uh, you want to do, um, like you must wear this kind of thing and you must be there for these hours. And there’s this punishment for not using, for not being on stage when you’re called and blah, da, da, da. All of those like. things. Yeah, so that can be like you might have to pay a certain amount in your tip out or whatever in house fees if you’re not on stage and you’re called twice for your set or whatever, that kind of thing. Or like if you refuse to do like a showcase special or something. 

AMD: Ooh, you get penalized for not doing a showcase special? 

StS: Yeah, there, there can be. And it’s, I mean, it’s like also, so if in the event that you’re,  Contract is terminated. Um, I have talked to one girl in particular who, um, so I, so she was like, Why did I get fired? And the management told her that it was because she wasn’t tipping out properly. But then whenever I talked to management about the issue, and I was like, Why was she fired? “I was I was wondering”, they, they They were like, “Oh, it’s because she’s crazy. You have no idea how crazy she is. She also was breaking all kinds of rules, like not going on for showcase and things like that.” So they, Use that kind of minor infraction as a way of skirting around saying what they’re actually firing you for. 

AMD: Sure. So are your showcase specials is like what I used to do at Spearmint Rhino Which is where you all go up on stage and walk around the stage like. 

StS: Essentially. 

AMD: We used to call it a cattle call.

StS: Yeah, you do like a little lady parade. I call it the sushi conveyor belt.  

AMD: That’s a good one. Girl, I used to avoid those so hard, I hated them.

StS: I like to hang out in the bathroom if I can. Yeah, yeah. It’s just I mean it’s like I get it. I get it that it’s a useful promotion device to kind of be like, OK, So now buy something. And sometimes I use it to my advantage. Like if if the customer is talking my ear off and I need to get away. then they were like, “Oh, it’s showcase. “I’m like, Oh, well, I guess I got to go. And now I come back and I like, “I guess it’s time for me to ask you for this dance.” Yeah, can we do it? But it’s still like, you know, it’s, it’s annoying. 

AMD: Yeah. But you do bring up a really good point. Like it is useful in some ways, but it’s just so  gross in another way.  You know, and I know I used to do it too. You know, I did it plenty of like hundreds of times, but I I hated it. I hated it. Mm hmm. Um, so you, how do you feel, like, what do you think about baby strippers coming in and not really, because are you, the way I see it, the climate right now in L.A. is really messed up, um, and there’s a lot that, that could be different. 

StS: Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s a really difficult climate right now because of the, um, just the way that clubs are interacting with AB5, and it’s not because they have to, because there’s no reason that they have to enforce it this way. They’re doing it in a way that becomes extra cumbersome and punitive toward dancers. Um, and so. Because they want us to personally petition to have it repealed so they make it as uncomfortable for us as possible so that we don’t realize how it could be a benefit to us to be employees, that we have power to greater rights, you know, like we have, we could have health care and we could unionize, and we could have like collective rights, you know, like we can work as a group and we don’t, we can’t be fired for, um, taking collective action together in a way that previously as independent contractors, there was no protection, right?

And there was no, no reason for them to pay us hourly, even if, you know, a lot of girls work a whole shift and maybe they don’t make a dime because, you know, The club is just, you know, maybe clubs are failing, some clubs are failing, or maybe it’s just the wrong day, or maybe it’s just, you know, a club is not promoting itself properly. Any number of reasons. So now at least girls can come in and be guaranteed that they’re getting a wage. So like, there’s all of these possibilities, but the way that clubs are enforcing it, they’re making us feel as though this is a negative thing, and hoping that we will use our power, or what we were granted and not realize it and, you know, petition to have fewer rights and have access to fewer things.

AMD: Yeah.  Do you see younger strippers coming in, um, and just not knowing anything about the history or where we are now like what what’s because I’m not stripping anymore, so I don’t get to see the newer generation It depends. 

StS: It depends. I mean, there are definitely a handful at all clubs of girls who know what’s going on like we- I think we’re doing a pretty fun job of you know Creating interesting media like we have great meme groups and we have the dancer a locker room and we have dancers resource And we have people like Jacq the stripper out there like making fun content and all kinds of like cool ways that we are framing the narrative and talking about what’s going on in a way that has never previously been accessible to dancers. So some people are you know, we are experiencing that, they’re picking up that media, and they’re coming in with that kind of under their belt, like as tools that they have. Um, but a lot of girls are not. It’s still, you know, as much as, as ever before, it’s been a thing where, you know, we have like, tiers of dancers.

Being aware of things like there’s people who didn’t really have much of a choice in the situation who are coming because they have, you know, desperate situations, or they just, you know, they don’t know where else they can work. So there, there’s that level. Then there’s people who do know what they’re getting into and are willing to do it and they’re fine with that, but they’re not trying to make moves. There is like the kind of educated class of strippers who, uh, you know, they know what’s up there. They’re pursuing other things at the same time. Um, and they are down for whatever causes. And there’s just like older strippers who have different experiences and they’ve seen the decline of clubs and they have their own weight in with it

And maybe, you know, like,  I think there’s also like a lot of pressure to stay where you are if you’re an older stripper, because, you know, it’s a hard climate right now. 

AMD: “Who’s gonna hire me at 40 years old?” 

StS: Who’s gonna hire you at 40 years old? Or who’s gonna hire me with all my tattoos? Or who’s gonna hire me with what, this and that, you know, my short hair. So it’s, there’s always gonna be such a diversity of people in the club. 

AMD: Sure. Well.  It sounds like what you’re saying is that strippers are people.  

StS: Yes, we’re not a monolith. (hahahhahahaa)

AMD: Nice. Yeah,  I know it’s surprising.  Um, have you seen the Hustlers movie yet? 

StS: Yeah. 

AMD: You did? I’ve been avoiding it. 

StS: Yeah, really? 

AMD: I need to see it. Well, because there was this one I was listening to this one review on this NPR show and they were talking about this dressing room strip club scene And they were just talking about how interesting it was how the dancers at the end of the night were like taking off their shoes And talking about how like what they were gonna do when they got home after work, and I was so into it irritated by that.

StS: They were like, they think that they just roll us into a carpet and stick us in the closet at the end of the night. I always, I always joke with clients that way. They’re like, Oh, where are you going after this? I’m like, Oh, back to the closet where they keep me. 

AMD:That’s amazing. I would get they would say, Oh, oh, what do you do during the day? I’m like, Oh, I get my nails done and I go tanning.  You know, I like, I get, I like sleep in and, you know, because they, they, it’s almost like that’s all we do. 

StS: They think that you’re just like a princess, kind of. 

AMD: Yeah. You know. Like all I do is like, just. 

StS: Prepare and get pampered. Wake up and prepare all day. And get beautiful all day. 

AMD: Yeah. That’s all I do. It’s really. Yeah.  So funny. Yeah. Well, meanwhile, it’s the opposite. We do a million amazing different things. So speaking of that, um, I was on your show. “Heaux In the Kneaux” 

StS: Yes

AMD: With my partner, Antonia Crane. And had such a fun time with you guys. It was very fun with you and your sister, Clover. Yeah. Um, can you tell us a little bit about your podcast and some of the topics that you discuss? 

StS: Yeah, So Heaux In the Kneaux is a podcast about sex work by sex workers for sex workers. And we talk to sex workers across all different disciplines. So it could be people who are pro doms and people making porn, cameras, strippers, cuddlers.  Um, massage parlor workers, um, full service escorts, street based sex workers, everybody. 

AMD: I really love this list you just rattled off.  Can you write that list down for me one day? 

StS: Yeah, of course. 

AMD: Yeah, because I get asked a lot, you know, what, what classifies a sex worker? And so I’d like to ask you.  You that question like obviously you have this list and a lot of people wouldn’t consider strippers sex workers not even strippers themselves 

StS: Definitely. I think that’s a big division line with a lot of strippers is they don’t want to be considered sex workers Because they’re not providing full service but I mean we are definitely sex workers. 

AMD: I looked up the definition of sex worker, I was looking on Wikipedia where everything on there is true. 

StS: Awesome. The real beacon of knowledge. 

AMD: Facts. Um, and one of the things that it mentioned on there, and I kind of, I want to go back and read it again and I want to research this a little bit more, but it was mentioning that even the people who work in the facility of where the sex work is provided are also considered sex workers.

StS: Very interesting. But I think I kind of get it because there is this real, especially you see in the stripper world, because it’s like one of the few forms of legal sex work, that the people who work in strip clubs also carry a lot of the stigma. Like, they don’t have as much ease in changing jobs, you know, like oh they tend to stay within strip clubs.

AMD: Yeah, you’re right 

StS: There’s and there’s like a secrecy around what they tell their families and things like that like they have a lot of the kind of secrecy that we have to bear. Of course, they’re not doing like the same levels and like with all sex work, there are degrees, you know, right like sending taking erotic nudes and and making softcore porn is not the same as like being a street based sex worker who does full service like there’s, we can’t just, you know, it’s not the same thing. It’s not the same tier, but it is under a similar, it’s under the umbrella. 

AMD: Totally. So are those the types of things that you discuss on your show? Like the different tiers and types of sex work and 

StS: Totally. So it’s that, um, we talk about life, labor politics, the really nitty gritty of like what your workplace looks like. What is your office? Yeah. If you’re a sex worker. Um, cause that’s kind of how I’ve been calling the strip club lately in my office. 

AMD: I mean, yeah, that’s where we conduct all of our business. 

StS: Exactly. It’s, it’s my place of business. Yeah. Um, and we also take a dip back and talk about history. All of our, uh, historical sex workers, our historical heaux’s, as we call them. Which is also kind of funny because I had a guest recently, um, a male porn star who was like, I don’t know if I want to be called a, uh, a hoe. Like I don’t know if I’m like a, a hoe. And I’m like, “Oh, that’s really interesting. Like what about like man whore” or things like that? He’s like, “okay, well if you add the man in there, then it works for me.”

AMD: Oh really?

StS: I know you had to add a little like gendered caveat for him. 

AMD: Oh because just being a regular whore, it was like too much for him? 

StS: It was too gendered a term. He didn’t, he felt it was a conflated with the feminine whore and he didn’t want to be under that umbrella. 

AMD: I don’t know how I feel about that.

StS: I mean, I also, I  contest this for sure. I don’t think  that we should be dividing each other in that way as well, especially whore to whore, you know? It’s like, I consider myself to be a historical hoe. I think what’s important about my show is that I’m a whore to whore. Just giving historical significance to people who are historically significant. I think that we don’t have a cultivated history in the same way that a lot of other professions do. And I think that it’s important to talk about it and to create an archive of our experiences and talk about our work and kind of like, you know, we have, we can have like a kind of database understanding of this is, this is sex work.

AMD: Yeah. Yeah. That’s so interesting. So who’s your favorite historical hoe? 

StS: Oh, that’s hard.  Um, oh, I guess I’m, I  guess I’m gonna go for an easy one because it’s off the top of my head. But Clover recently did a historical hoe segment on Air Force Amy. Are you familiar with her?

AMD: No, I’m not. 

StS: So, um, she’s like a full service sex worker and she lives out in, um, Vegas and she actually, she kind of like runs, is like more of a madam slash house mom of this brothel out there. And she’s just like super cool. Like she started off, did like military service for a while and then came back and wasn’t sure what she wanted to do. And decided to get into sex work and now she like mentors younger, younger, um, full service sex workers and stuff like that. And she’s just like really cool. I wish I, you should check out the episode on that. 

AMD: Yeah, I would love to. Yeah. So how can people find out more about your podcast? 

StS: Um, you can find us on Spotify, Apple podcast, Stitcher at, um, Heaux In the Kneaux

So H E A U X. In the K N E A U X. 

AMD: Cool, and we’ll have that information definitely listed for you properly with a link to it for sure. Yeah, um, yeah, I just, I love that because you’re right. Our history is sort of, it’s non existent and very little has been documented because people are like, Afraid to talk about us?


I don’t know like, you know, and I


StS:  think especially with contemporary sex workers, too Because older ones you can kind of get like the history rundown of them. But of course like a lot of the knowledge that we have about sex workers from the past is like carceral knowledge. So write ups from their prison record or things like that like when they’ve been detained when they’ve been tried for whatnot Like yeah, it’s interesting how they kind of go hand in hand. But, um, Whores of Yore, if you’re not familiar, um, is a great, like, resource for, um, learning about all kinds of, uh, sex workers across history. They have a fantastic timeline that I 

AMD: Oh, I need to read that. Very thoroughly read through all the time. I’m like, oh, I need a historical hoe. Like, let me just read through this timeline and pick somebody out from it.

Yeah, I need to read that. 

StS: It’s so fun. Yeah.

AMD:  So with the, you know, it has bothered me recently that even strippers themselves are like, I’m not a sex worker.  And  with the pole dance industry right now, there is a divide between pole dancers and strippers, even though strippers are the inventors of what pole dancers are doing. And um, you also pole dance as a stripper, so not all strippers pole dance and not all pole dancers strip. That’s how I explain it to all of you. In layman’s terms, 

StS: it’s a Venn diagram. 

AMD: Yeah, totally. Um, what are, what’s your, I just really briefly want your thoughts on like the, the, the current divide between pole dancers and strippers and what you think about that.

StS: Um, I mean, for me, it’s just, it’s hard. I feel like it’s appropriation because, um, I feel like There’s just, um, well, I guess there’s opportunity for allies and all of that, but I think a lot of right now not enough is happening because people just don’t want to understand the amount of discrimination. And, and other kind of, like, marginalization that we face as stripper pole dancers.

And also, like, you know, strippers made pole dancing, to be real. Like, if you’re using the metal pole, the spinny metal pole, when you’re wearing the platform pleasers and whatnot, and if you’re doing those things, like, you are taking from our lineage. And I think it’s really important to acknowledge that and also to do more as an ally because We need a lot.

We need advocates in all levels of  government and also legally and we need writers, we need artists to work to help bring us up so that we can bring up the broader sex work community as well. It’s like we have the greatest opportunity to have real kind of- we have mobility in a way that other sex work industries don’t because we’re legal  You know like we can have access to  you know, better workplaces and we can have our sexual assault allegations properly, you know  handled properly potentially 

AMD: potentially not in all cases.

StS: Yeah, not right now, right sure But it’s like we need a lot of stuff. We need that we need help For people to take us seriously, you know, to take all of our labor concerns seriously and our health concerns and our sexual assault concerns Seriously, and I think that part of that is like being a good ally if you’re in the pole community. Because you are like so directly connected to us a venue group 

AMD: The poll dancers. Yeah, absolutely.  

StS: Okay, so my first stripper tip is for strippers particularly and that is to really economize your time. I think that it’s important whenever you’re making a sale to a client to keep it under five minutes. If you’re talking to them, you’re I have five basic questions and I can tell you my basic questions. What’s your name? Where are you from? How’s your day been?  Sometimes I don’t even get past those three questions because like where you’re from, like that brings up a whole like, Oh, you’re from Idaho. What do you do out in Idaho? Blah, diddy, blah. You know, like that kind of thing. How is your day? So you kind of get a vibe of like how they’re feeling.

Um, name, you can also like kind of vibe off of that, but it’s just like, um, what are my other ones? Oh, uh, what do you do? Oh, yeah. So, so you know what their income level is. Yeah, yeah. And also, if you’re asking what do they do, like, there’s a big difference between like, oh, I’m an electrical engineer versus I’m an aeronautics engineer versus I’m a whatever, like a mechanical engineer.

Their pay grades are vastly different. So it’s important to kind of parse through like, you know, what kind of money people are working with. 

AMD: Do you know the average income of all those different types of engineers you just listed?  

StS: Uh, so kind of. Like, I know who makes more than others. Okay. So, so that’s what’s important to me in a way, so, and then I think that, and then after that it’s just like, do you want to go for a dance? May I take you for a dance? I like to. 

AMD: May I take you for a dance? 

StS: I always say may I take you for a dance. 

AMD: Oh, that’s nice. 

StS: Or may I take you. 

AMD: That’s a nice one.  That’s nice. I used to say, Quieres 

StS: Oh, yeah, I say that with my papis.

All the papis que te quieres bailar. Yeah. Quieres bailar conmigo? 

AMD: It’s so funny that you chose engineers because that used to always be my favorite answer from them when I’d say, what do you do? Because they always, engineers have money and they’re more willing, they always seem more willing to spend it and to part with it for some reason.

StS: Lawyers may haggle you. It depends on the kind of lawyer. Doctors, it’s like, you know, it’s going to be different if you’re like a family physician versus like a surgeon of some kind, like, yeah, surgeons are going to be coming in with the baller money. But just because somebody makes a certain amount of money doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re willing to spend it, right?

AMD: The engineers love to spend it, 

StS: but it’s good. It’s good to kind of have a ballpark thing. Like if you find out that a guy’s You know, working in food service, maybe you’re not gonna don’t spend as much time, you know? And also, I mean not that you should be spending more time than five minutes regardless of whatever their income level is you know make the sale as soon as you can because if you go too deep then you become too human and you ruin the fantasy like the point is you’re cultivating this fantasy of yourself or whatever identity you have, right? So, it’s your, you know, hyper femme, super, um, what is the word, charismatic version of yourself. Yeah. And you don’t want to go too deep into your family history. Don’t talk about your kids. 

AMD: Oh God, no.

StS: Don’t talk about the problems of your day. Never admit that you’ve been having a less than amazing day. Unless it’s a regular. Regulars, you know, the rules are different. Yeah. You’re going to roll how you’re going to roll and you have a relationship. But with new people, those are my, my ground.  

AMD: That’s great. Those are some good sales tips in general. General sales tips. Yeah, and strippers are the best sales people I’ve ever met.

StS: Oh, totally. I mean, we do it naked and with people who look down on us.  

AMD: Yeah, you’re right. 

StS: Like, there’s such a social stratus and we’re kind of the best. The lowest rung, but we have to perceive ourselves as the highest rung even among these people who are professionals in all levels You know all kinds of fields. Like we get NASA engineers coming in 

AMD: 100 percent like, 

StS: you know You got to be like I’m better than them  Well, they’re coming. And they owe, they owe me for this experience. 

AMD: Absolutely. Yeah. Those are great. That’s great tips. Thanks. I love that.